1820 PCI on Vista - Garbled System Audio

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cmayo
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1820 PCI on Vista - Garbled System Audio

Post by cmayo » Thu May 03, 2012 9:57 pm

I just purchased a secondhand quad core PC and am having some issues getting my 1820 PCI interface to function at 100%.

Audio from my DAW (Cubase 5.1.2) seems to be fine, but audio from Windows (i.e. playing system sounds from the Sounds control panel, audio from web browsers, Windows Media Player, iTunes, etc.) pretty much sounds like digital garbage. Sometimes the audio will straighten out and play okay after a few seconds, sometimes the audio will phase from garbled to clear as it plays but mostly, system audio is all digital garbage. The 1820 interface performed perfectly in my old dual-core computer, so I'm reasonably sure the Emu hardware is okay.

To troubleshoot, I have:

1) Disabled onboard audio.
2) Performed a "virgin" re-install of EMU software (Driver Package V1.82 - Patchmix Application Update V1.81).
3) Removed the wireless card that was sharing IRQ 16.
4) Verified that sample rate in sounds control panel & the sample rate in Patchmix match (44.1)

All to no avail.

Another odd issue is that under the Sound control panels "Recording" tab, my system reports that "No audio devices are installed). No huge deal since my DAW is recording normally via the 1820.

What other troubleshooting steps might I take to clear up my audio?

PC: Quad-core Dell XPS 420
OS: Windows Vista Home Premium, SP1 - 32bit, 4GB RAM, 405GB free space on C: drive.
RAM: 4gb

My IRQ table for IRQ16:

IRQ 16 Intel(R) X38 Express Chipset PCI Express Root Port - 29E1 OK
IRQ 16 PCI standard PCI-to-PCI bridge OK
IRQ 16 Intel(R) ICH9 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 2937 OK
IRQ 16 Intel(R) ICH9 Family PCI Express Root Port 1 - 2940 OK
IRQ 16 E-MU E-DSP OK

Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

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Re: 1820 PCI on Vista - Garbled System Audio

Post by jmail » Sun May 06, 2012 2:27 pm

There are issues with some machines that have over about 3.5 gig of ram in Windows, starting from Vista and above, but I was thinking it was with the 64-bit versions only... Read through Windows & WDM audio, and see if changing the power-saving settings in the BIOS helps.

Also, what's on IRQ 17 with the 1820's firewire port? An IRQ conflict there might influence the 1820. If necessary, you could either disable the firewire port in Device Manager (the easy thing to do), or disable the onboard device. I'll have to get on my machine later, and see if it's got a similar listing for my EMU, but at first glance, what you have on IRQ 16 looks a bit odd...
Intel DP43BF mobo, Intel Core 2 Quad Q8300 Yorkfield 2.5GHz Quad-core, 4 gig ram, 2x WD Black 750g SATA HD, DVD+RW, CD-RW, Gigabyte GV-R455D3-512I Radeon HD 4550 vid, Rosewill case & 480w FSP PS. Dual-boot WinXP SP3+ & Win7 64-bit SP1+, EMU 1820M (only card)-works great, v2.1 PM, Beta driver(v2.3), Reaper 3.78, Sound Forge v9, Behr ADA8000, Liquid Mix 16, Waves Gold, Lexicon LXP N, PV ReValver 4 amp sim, Rode NT-2A mic, Martin D-35 guitbox, PV T-60, and ProteusX2 (XP only) w/Vintage X Pro Vol 1, 2 & 3 and other EMU soundsets! Pair of EMU PM-5 monitors, and other misc. gear. How I built the beast The Mini-Beast

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Re: 1820 PCI on Vista - Garbled System Audio

Post by j7n » Mon May 07, 2012 12:10 pm

I also have USB controllers listed on the same IRQ. But I'm a bit puzzled about the PCI-E. Could it be that on this new motherboard PCI is being "bridged" through PCI-E, with somewhat sacrificed compatibility?


IRQ 18 Shared E-MU E-DSP Audio Processor (WDM)
IRQ 18 Shared Intel(R) ICH8 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 2832
IRQ 18 Shared Intel(R) ICH8 Family USB2 Enhanced Host Controller - 283A


As a very radical approach, I would try setting up Windows XP on this computer as a dual boot option, and see if it works properly. As jmail suggested to me earlier, the current Windows installation could be backed up to an image beforehand. If WinXP does work, all is fine, if it doesn't, the current operating system may be restored from the backup.

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Re: 1820 PCI on Vista - Garbled System Audio

Post by jmail » Mon May 07, 2012 1:21 pm

j7n wrote:I also have USB controllers listed on the same IRQ. But I'm a bit puzzled about the PCI-E. Could it be that on this new motherboard PCI is being "bridged" through PCI-E, with somewhat sacrificed compatibility?...
Yes, that's the way they do it now. The PCI buss is an "add-on" to the PCIe buss, which does lower the priority of the PCI buss. You can have several PCIe devices "sharing" the same IRQ (we used to call that a conflict with PCI) and have no issues. However, the PCI device conflicting with a PCIe device can have a reduced time to "interact" with the CPU. I'll get on my machine later and post my IRQ table with the machine in XP, and then again in Win7-64. There's a difference in the listings, with the XP boot being much simpler looking. I also have a Vista 32 boot that I could also put up... more later.

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Re: 1820 PCI on Vista - Garbled System Audio

Post by jmail » Mon May 07, 2012 3:49 pm

OK, first of all, I moved the topic into the 1820 area, since that's the device you have, but I left the "shadow topic" in the "root" of the EMU section so that others with WDM audio issues can follow it. I might make the other threads concerning the issue into "stickies", which should move them to the top of the list... maybe.

Anyway, here's my IRQ tables for XP & Win7-64, from the dual-boot machine in my signature below (quad-core w/PCIe & PCI):

IRQ Table in WinXP:
IRQ 13 Numeric data processor OK
IRQ 16 Intel(R) 4 Series Chipset PCI Express Root Port - 2E21 OK
IRQ 16 ATI Radeon HD 4300/4500 Series OK
IRQ 16 Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 3A37 OK
IRQ 16 Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller OK
IRQ 16 Intel(R) ICH10 Family PCI Express Root Port 2 - 3A42 OK
IRQ 16 Intel(R) ICH10 Family PCI Express Root Port 6 - 3A4A OK
IRQ 17 Microsoft UAA Bus Driver for High Definition Audio OK
IRQ 17 Intel(R) ICH10 Family PCI Express Root Port 1 - 3A40 OK
IRQ 17 Intel(R) ICH10 Family PCI Express Root Port 5 - 3A48 OK
IRQ 17 Broadcom NetLink (TM) Gigabit Ethernet OK
IRQ 17 E-MU E-DSP OK
IRQ 18 Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 3A39 OK
IRQ 18 Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Enhanced Host Controller - 3A3C OK
IRQ 18 Intel(R) ICH10 Family PCI Express Root Port 3 - 3A44 OK
IRQ 18 Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 3A36 OK
IRQ 18 NEC OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller OK
IRQ 19 Intel(R) ICH10 Family PCI Express Root Port 4 - 3A46 OK
IRQ 19 Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 3A35 OK
IRQ 19 Intel(R) ICH10R SATA AHCI Controller OK
IRQ 21 Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 3A38 OK
IRQ 23 Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 3A34 OK
IRQ 23 Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Enhanced Host Controller - 3A3A OK

IRQ Table in Win7:
IRQ 13 Numeric data processor OK
IRQ 16 Standard Dual Channel PCI IDE Controller OK
IRQ 16 Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 3A37 OK
IRQ 17 High Definition Audio Controller OK
IRQ 17 E-MU E-DSP OK
IRQ 18 Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Enhanced Host Controller - 3A3C OK
IRQ 18 1394 OHCI Compliant Host Controller (Legacy) OK
IRQ 18 Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 3A36 OK
IRQ 18 Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 3A39 OK
IRQ 19 Intel(R) ICH10R SATA AHCI Controller OK
IRQ 19 Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 3A35 OK
IRQ 21 Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 3A38 OK
IRQ 23 Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Enhanced Host Controller - 3A3A OK
IRQ 23 Intel(R) ICH10 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 3A34 OK

I'll have to go to the other machine for the Vista32 table...
Here's the Vista machine (P4 single core, PCI & AGP):

IRQ Table in WinVista-32:
IRQ 13 Numeric data processor OK
IRQ 14 ATA Channel 0 OK
IRQ 15 ATA Channel 1 OK
IRQ 16 VIA USB Enhanced Host Controller OK
IRQ 17 VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Companion Controller OK
IRQ 17 E-MU E-DSP OK
IRQ 18 VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Companion Controller OK
IRQ 18 VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Companion Controller OK
IRQ 18 OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller OK
IRQ 18 Intel(R) PRO/100 M Desktop Adapter OK
IRQ 19 VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Companion Controller OK
IRQ 19 VIA USB Enhanced Host Controller OK
IRQ 19 Silicon Image SiI 3512 SATARaid Controller OK

The 3rd table here is of limited value since there's no PCIe buss on the computer. The Vista machine has all sorts of stuff set "wrong" for an E-MU DAS device, such as UAC is active, there's an "add-on" SATA controller, the E-MU "shares" on both IRQ 17 and IRQ 18, etc., yet does fine in this particular computer.

Both computers have *all* power saving stuff turned-off in the BIOS and the OS, such that the computer is "full-throttle" all the time, with no screen saver, no background, no Windows Sounds, etc. The Win7 machine runs great in both XP and Win7, and the Vista machine runs great in XP and Vista (both are dual-boot).

Notice in the Win7-64 boot that the NIC and a few other devices are no longer visible in this portion of the table. They "moved" to the very upper range of the IRQ table, but are still there active. If I enable the onboard HD audio, which would be on IRQ 21 if it was active, the computer will Blue Screen Of Death in Win7-64, but not XP, no matter which audio device is set to "default". I do not understand that. The HD audio you see in both the XP & Win7 boots is from the ATI video card's HDMI port. It cannot be disabled for whatever reason, except in Device Manager, and then it "re-enables" itself with each boot. If I leave it alone, it causes no issues...

I no longer have WDM audio issues in either machine or OS. See EMU DAS Device 10 Question Windows Audio Poll
Intel DP43BF mobo, Intel Core 2 Quad Q8300 Yorkfield 2.5GHz Quad-core, 4 gig ram, 2x WD Black 750g SATA HD, DVD+RW, CD-RW, Gigabyte GV-R455D3-512I Radeon HD 4550 vid, Rosewill case & 480w FSP PS. Dual-boot WinXP SP3+ & Win7 64-bit SP1+, EMU 1820M (only card)-works great, v2.1 PM, Beta driver(v2.3), Reaper 3.78, Sound Forge v9, Behr ADA8000, Liquid Mix 16, Waves Gold, Lexicon LXP N, PV ReValver 4 amp sim, Rode NT-2A mic, Martin D-35 guitbox, PV T-60, and ProteusX2 (XP only) w/Vintage X Pro Vol 1, 2 & 3 and other EMU soundsets! Pair of EMU PM-5 monitors, and other misc. gear. How I built the beast The Mini-Beast

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Re: 1820 PCI on Vista - Garbled System Audio

Post by cmayo » Tue May 08, 2012 1:10 am

Thanks for the ideas. I didn't see anyplace in BIOS setup to completely disable power management, but I did set the BIOS up for the minimum levels of management and I have Vista's power management CP setup for highest performance (didn't see a way to disable power management in Vista either), but that hasn't affected the audio issue.

IRQ 17 is reasonably clean:

IRQ 17 Intel(R) ICH9 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 2938 OK
IRQ 17 Intel(R) ICH9 Family USB Universal Host Controller - 2935 OK
IRQ 17 OHCI Compliant IEEE 1394 Host Controller OK

I haven't yet tried disabling the EMU's Firewire port in the BIOS setup, but will do so next time I remember it while booting.

As for XP... while I was trying to get this new PC set up and all my apps running, I did try installing XP but ran into some issues but can't recall the details. Also tried a Windows 7 install... big mistake where the EMU stuff was concerned. In the end, I had to go back to Vista.

Jmail, did you move your EMU stuff to IRQ 17 & 18 from 16 & 17? I did just a bit of research on reassigning IRQ's and decided not to get that deep into the PC if I could help it.

Since Cubase works fine with the 1820 and since disabling/enabling the onboard audio doesn't seem to change things with the 1820, what I ultimately did was to re-enable the onboard audio and set the Windows Sound control panel to output through the onboard audio and stuck a small mixer between my PC and my stereo receiver (which I use for playback). I'm running the outputs from both the 1820 and the onboard audio into the mixer before sending mixed audio to my stereo receiver, and that's working well enough to suit me. Not a very high-tech solution and I'd just as soon not have the mixer adding still more clutter on my desk, but it seems like a pretty functional workaround.

Thanks for the help. If I ever do figure out how to get my PC, Vista and the 1820 to play nice, I'll return and update the thread.

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Re: 1820 PCI on Vista - Garbled System Audio

Post by jmail » Tue May 08, 2012 9:33 pm

Oh my gosh... I just accidentally hit the 'Back' button and lost my whole post... sob :weep:

Anyway, as to moving IRQs, you end up moving the device from one slot to another, which changes (usually) it's IRQ assingment. You use the VRIR (Virgin Re-Install Routine), as documented by E-MU Bruce in Q/A 20 in the site's FAQs Section. The main point of his way is that after the uninstall, to re-boot the computer without the EMU in the computer. That cleans up the registry for the next install. Oftentimes though, you'll end up with a different IRQ conflict in a different slot. The modern computer has so much stuff onboard anymore, it's next to impossible to avoid a conflict with something. What I do with an install in a new computer of mine is, I install the card and driver to each of the slots in turn, documenting the IRQ table with each install, and then after finished with all of that, decide what's the easiest way to "attack" the issue. I've used certain slots on the pc, disabling some onboard gear that conflicts, because a different slot might have something more important that I don't want to disable. That said, the IRQ 17 assignment you have now doesn't look bad, so long as you're not using the USB ports.

Unfortunately for most of us, there isn't a "Power Saving" section in the BIOS, and the different settings in my particular computer are in three different areas. For one of them, it makes no sense whatsoever as to why it is where it is in the BIOS... The C1E setting seems to make the biggest diffence for most of us, but some of us have had to disable that HPET thang (whatever they are). Others haven't had to do the HPET. Along those lines, if I know I'm going to be doing a lot of internet stuff, or certain things in audio, then I might disable the hyper-threading in the BIOS, since IE8 thrashes something awful in XP with my quad-core, as do a few other apps. If I know I'm going to be rendering a lot of video, I leave it active, since my SLE is multi-core aware, and renders *way* faster with all the cores active.

Your use of the onboard audio is a rather common solution for a lot of users. On my particular computer, the onboard will cause a BSOD, so I've left mine disabled. The only issue most users get with what you've done, is "confusion", in that you have to be certain you know what device does what. You also have to be especially careful with sample rate changes and be sure the bit depth matches the file you're using. See Q/A 38 for that. The mixer can add to the systems flexibility (as well as confusion).

As to installing XP, it's easiest if you have it installed first, then install the new OS in a separate partition from the XP partition. Vista and Win7 both pick up the old OS and add it to the boot menu. On computers with Vista already installed, you have to install XP to either a separate partition, or a different hard drive, and usually you have to "hide" the Vista partition in order for the XP to install. Sometimes, when you then un-hide the Vista partition, it'll pick-up the new install, but sometimes you have to edit the boot.ini file (or the BCD in Win7), and manually add it to the list. MS has several articles on those techniques on their web site. It's easiest to remove the Vista hard drive from the computer, and then install XP to a new hard drive. Then put the Vista drive in the Drive 0 position, the XP drive as Drive 1, and see what it does...

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Re: 1820 PCI on Vista - Garbled System Audio

Post by cmayo » Wed May 09, 2012 8:17 am

Wow, that's a pretty thorough approach to resolving IRQ conflicts but I don't think I know nearly enough about the inner workings of the PC to figure out what's a conflict and what's not at any given IRQ unless, as you say, I do a lot of experimenting with disablng/enabling the other devices on shared IRQ's.

On another note, I disabled the 1820's Firewire port in Device Manager this morning (er, yesterday morning, now) and as I was composing this post, I figured I'd better check to make sure I still had the problem with Windows audio and was blown away to discover that... IT WORKED! At least for the moment, I have clear audio from both Windows and my DAW.

Man, thanks so much for your help. I never would have figured out that killing the 1820's Firewire port was even a diagnostic step.

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Re: 1820 PCI on Vista - Garbled System Audio

Post by jmail » Thu May 10, 2012 12:29 am

Wierd, ain't it? It didn't make a difference on my newest compurer, or the first one I had it in, but on the one I used a couple years ago, it was astounding what a difference it made. My Liquid Mix 16 is a firewire device, and it wouldn't work correctly in the newest computer using the 1820M's firewire port, but it worked in the old computer... go figure. It to do with "bandwidth"...

The IRQ stuff is actually rather easy. If it's a hard drive, NIC (especially wireless)or video card that's "sharing", you probably have issues (unless you've got a PCIe EMU device). On the newer computers, even the NIC doesn't matter too much, unless it's a wireless. USB ports don't matter too much, unless they're in use, and any "steering" IRQ (like the first 2 lines of your IRQ 16 listing) usually doesn't matter. Emphasis on "USUALLY"...

You're more than welcome for the "help", but don't count them chickies before they hatch... tic

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1820 PCI on Vista Garbled System Audio

Post by LindsiDiuby » Wed Nov 09, 2016 3:23 am

Р :lol:

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